Cadaver Scents

Cadaver / Victim Recovery / Body Dogs / Human Remain Detection section

Re: Cadaver Scents

Postby Pete » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:27 pm

Exactly! It is so grey.

When you read the act it is clearly designed for hospitals in mind (think staorage of tissue from deceased patents and the transplant fiasco at a Liverpool childrens hospital a few years ago).

My contact at the Police has said you have to exercise common sense.

Consented blood OK, a finger from an industrial accident Not OK.

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Re: Cadaver Scents

Postby Mojo » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:08 pm

Unfortunately, it was written with hospitals in mind and although it causes a problem outside of the hospital - is it another one of those laws that are currently waiting to be tested outside of the hospital environment? I know a few times I've mentioned the word 'consent' and whether thats verbal, written or implied (i.e. putting your arm outtt when a dr/nurse approaches you with a BP cuff) surely it's all down to the consenting individual and for the handler not to use the material for any other usage than stated, i.e. training their dog???

Of course I may stand corrected here - but as long as you respect the consentee's wishes and you look after the material, what harm can be done apart from developing a worthwhile skill you wouln't otherwise have the opportunity to do so?

4 Obtaining scientific or medical information about a living or deceased person which may be relevant to any other person (including a future person).


The above is from the poseted reply from Willy7474, surely the material will be classed as scientific information which will be relevant to any other person in the future - you are actively training a dog to identify a specific scent to aid further future developments?

Really a grey area - but any info I'll up-date you

Maybe a law waiting to be tested!
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Re: Cadaver Scents

Postby mike » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:45 am

out of interest, who has used pseudo scent for training a body dog ? i know cantech have used the drowned victim and the distressed person scent, has any one used just the pseudo scent to train a dog ?
i am interested in finding out what results people have had.
a number of years ago i was involved in some trials using SIGMA pseudo scents and "live" scents, we used six different dogs with some interesting results.
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Re: Cadaver Scents

Postby Gunther » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:34 pm

Hi Mike,
can you give me an idea where I can get pseudo scents. :?:
Would be very helpful for our training.
Thanks
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Re: Cadaver Scents

Postby mike » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:06 pm

Gunther, the only psuedo scent i know of is by SIGMA, lets see if my computer skills are ok and i will try and add a link.
i used to train with the German police dogs in 1987 - 1989, from what i remember the laws in Germany are /were very different to the UK relating to what you can train with, ie they were using human flesh / bones. or should i be deleting that line.
where possible i would always recommend you use the real thing or as close as possible ( we tend to use pig or human blood for training )

links http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/sea ... ge/9620039

http://leerburg.com/cadaver.htm

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Re: Cadaver Scents

Postby Mojo » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:02 pm

Hi Mike & Gunther,

What is the official standing on the law's in germany re: training with human flesh and bones, and why is it so different to here?

Never mind deleting that line Mike, if you can train with the real thing - fantastic!

Our Police Force here seem to be upping the support now and are going to great lengths to assist us, especially within the Cadaver field.

I'm sure we're on the same lines when I say, no thing like the real thing [wink]

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Re: Cadaver Scents

Postby Gunther » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:21 pm

Border Police trainers and Police dog traininers in general are allowed to use "the real thing". 8-)

Rescue dog trainiers are NOT allowed to use it. Only artificial scences are allowed for us. [closedeyes]
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Re: Cadaver Scents

Postby mike » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:57 pm

MOJO,
we ( english police ) are not able to use human flesh / bone at all,oh the joys of british law, we can use pig only, when we train on blood we use human only. i still have contacts in Germany and, once pet passported, will hopefully get my hound over there and tested on the real thing. i have to say though i have had operational finds of blood, flesh and bones in the UK so the present system we use must work.

Gunther,

are you not able to train with your local police or is it easier to train on pig meat yourself.

mike ( very tired after 2 days in wales body searching, I NEED BEER ).
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Re: Cadaver Scents

Postby K9-Handler » Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:37 pm

Willy7474 wrote:If you read the Human Tissues Act it is illegal to keep anything that you can obtain DNA from.


There was an exception to hair.

Used to be able to keep hair belong to someone else with their consent, as long as they are alive there is no offence commited.

Has this changed with 2007 amendments?
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Re: Cadaver Scents

Postby Pete » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:28 pm

Some useful links:

http://cadaverdog.com/articles/pseudoscents.htm

http://cadaverdog.com/articles/pseudo_scent.htm

Have also done some checking with regards to UK Police forces and the only acceptable scent source is pig. This is also noted in the ACPO, Dog Training Guidance, Chapter 23.

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