Info Desperately Needed!!! - Work in Urban areas?

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Info Desperately Needed!!! - Work in Urban areas?

Postby Mojo » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:48 pm

I'm just wondering if there is a definitive answer to a question I've been thinking for a while now...

I know strange for me .....

But can dogs work within urban area's i.e. housing estates, built-up area's, business parks and if so what are the main/specific danger area's I would have to observe whilst Risk Assessing the area?

Are the dogs required, in this instance, to work on their lead's or is this also specific for that individual dog?

We tend to search urban area's, at the moment anyway, and whilst some area's are fantastic open land/parkland others are more built up with many varying road types and conditions. From a management point of view, if their was a nearby motorway but you were unsure as to the accessability of the motorway from one of the sectors you asked the handler to search - is this unsafe practice? Or is it acceptable, aslong as you make the handler aware?

Sorry folks, I thought I was nearly there undersatnding the dog world - looks as though I've scratched the surface SORRY [blush]

Mojo x
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Re: Info Desperately Needed!!!

Postby Daryl » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:55 pm

An airscenting dog (by definition) can technically work anywhere, however safety is your biggest consideration!!

As always (unless trained to be scent specific) a dog will fgind all people in a given area, so waiting till 4am may be a good idea.

You should also have a look at scent theory for urban environments (some disaster dog scent theories cover this) as scent will act a little differently than you would normally be used to.

An airscent dog can work on a line, I have done this myself. Some peole will say that if you are working on a line, you shouldn't be working in that area as it isn't safe. If you are going to work on a line you should definately practice it!!!

Hope this helps a little

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Re: Info Desperately Needed!!!

Postby Pete » Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:30 pm

Hi Jo,

I know that there have been many urban searches in the past where dogs have been used, in fact there was one 2 weeks ago.

Safety aside for the moment I would suggest that it depends on the time of day and the number of other people in the area. Unless your dog is scent specific as DT said, then there would be little point in using a dog in the town centre during shopping hours. However we have used dogs to search buildings such as school grounds out of hours, graveyards and residential areas during the night-time.

With regards to safety then this is very dependant on the dog and the control the handler has over it, as well as the dogs enviromental awareness. I have searched as close as 20m to busy roads amd dual carriageways off lead (only due to the fact that I know I can stop Sox on a sixpence). However this is the exception not the rule! Always air on the side of caution and think safety first, training can to some degree lessen the dangers you may face however it will not remove them from the equation.

As DT said "Some people will say that if you are working on a line, you shouldn't be working in that area as it isn't safe", I would say that these people are not looking at the situation correctly, unless there are problems with scent then there are actually very few times you could not make effective use of a dog.

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Re: Info Desperately Needed!!!

Postby tony & spud » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:09 pm

Hi all,
I, too , am curious about the comment by certain people (that DT mentions) re: working a dog on a line not being safe.
Surely the whole point of the Handler choosing to work the dog on a line is to ensure the safety of the dog, in what otherwise might be an unsafe enviroment.
Or am I missing a point somewhere? [blink]
TB
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Re: Info Desperately Needed!!!

Postby niki » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:54 pm

I completely agree with you Tony.

But there are some handlers who don't think that an air scenting dog should work on a line at all. I think as you said it is better to be safe than sorry but it is definitely a skill that needs to be practiced first. Don't know if I could search with Scrumpy on a line, but again it is about knowing the limitations of your dog. So in that situation I know I wouldn't be able to work Scrumpy there but Pete and Sox or Daryl and Guin could.

As Pete said the dog will search and if there is something to be found they will find it. I think that being able to work your dog on a line is just another feather in your cap and tool to enable you to do a complete and as thorough search as possible.
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Re: Info Desperately Needed!!!

Postby Pete » Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:00 pm

Very agreed [biggrin]

I have done some line training with Sox and found the hardest part was getting her to search at the line length and not try to pull me all over the place.

But as NT said, once you have practiced it, it's another feather in your cap.

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Re: Info Desperately Needed!!!

Postby Mojo » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:06 pm

Ok, let's start at the beginning...

Daryl - me at 4am in the morning is not a pretty sight, but if that's what it takes I'm sure Joe will drag me out of bed [sad] . I'll look into Urban Scent Theory but I've just got use to scent theory in general, so maybe a touch mind boggling.

Pete - with regards to Sox, if she, or any dog infact, had a scent would the handler still be able to stop them as they would normally or is it learnt through 'experience' and 'trust'??? And just to ask a bloody stupid question, I take it you don't use cavader dogs in a graveyard? (Ah well, one of us had to ask it!) [rolleyes]

Niki -
"Some people will say that if you are working on a line, you shouldn't be working in that area as it isn't safe",
I understand this, however, what is the safe length of a line? I am thinking on the same lines as TB.

TB - Thanks for your comment, now I know it's just not me thinking outside the box, so to speak.

Is it not the handlers decision anyway (line or not) for the safety of the dog AFTER they have left the Control Point and after being briefed, of course with a risk assessment?

Am I understanding the replies correctly by saying 'it's ok for a dog to work on a line, in certain circumstances?'

Can of worm's have obviously been opened - sorry

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Re: Info Desperately Needed!!!

Postby Mojo » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:22 pm

Oh Gunther,

We found a bringsle today in our local Adventure Centre, but they were called a 'lunker'. Good idea, now I can relate to the 'no snagging' theory behind them.

Mojo & Joe (sorry Joe's having a blonde day again [blink] )
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Re: Info Desperately Needed!!! - Work in Urban areas?

Postby muttly » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:19 pm

Hello! I know this is an old thread, but I stumbled upon it doing some research on dogs olfactory sensibilities in puppy training. It seems like urban areas could be somewhat problematic for search dogs, who may receive myriad scents in a dense environment and not be able to sort them correctly (or who knows, there probably are some odd advantages). The "scent theory for urban environments" sounds like a great resource. This is one of the better libraries I've found on scent theory : www - nwk9.com/nwk9_bookstore_track.htm

** edit - the url is no longer a link to the bookstore.
Last edited by muttly on Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Info Desperately Needed!!! - Work in Urban areas?

Postby StuartL » Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:57 am

muttly wrote:Hello! I know this is an old thread, but I stumbled upon it doing some research on dogs olfactory sensibilities. It seems like urban areas could be somewhat problematic for search dogs, who may receive myriad scents in a dense environment and not be able to sort them correctly (or who knows, there probably are some odd advantages). The "scent theory for urban environments" sounds like a great resource. This is one of the better libraries I've found on scent theory ...


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