Cadaver Standards

An area to discuss current or future standards

Cadaver Standards

Postby Pete » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:17 pm

Is anyone aware of any Cadaver Standards being used in the UK at the moment?

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Re: Cadaver Standards

Postby Willy7474 » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:23 pm

There are no standards for cadaver work in the UK. Those Police forces that have cadaver/HRD/body dogs apply testing standards the same as for explo or drugs dogs. There are a number of organisations in the States such as FEMA who have published their standards. I don't honestly see a standard being able to be set because of the red tape that's involved with cadaver work, restrictions to area used, type of scent source etc..
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Re: Cadaver Standards

Postby Mojo » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:12 pm

Hi Pete,

The ex-policeman I was on about in the other forum has now joined this forum under the name Radar, he is really keen to train his dog into cadaver dog and I am aware of some of the work he has done - why don't you PM him and give him a nudge to post?

Sorry I can't help this time but Good Luck x
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Re: Cadaver Standards

Postby Pete » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:55 pm

Will do Jo, have now been made awarre of a standard being wrote and I am waiting for a copy once it has been agreed.

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Re: Cadaver Standards

Postby mike » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:52 am

as willy said, there is no set standard for police cadaver / body dogs, having just come back from Dewsbury i was able to speak to handlers from Surry hampshire and strathclyde, none of us have a set test but they were very similar to each other, ie age of graves / flesh, types of hides ( buildings,fields woods etc), ages of bones and blood work. i do think we need a set standard for all police dogs but each force sees its dogs being used in different ways. mike
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Re: Cadaver Standards

Postby Pete » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:49 am

Nice Badger Head,

What tests do you use on your dogs Mike?

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Re: Cadaver Standards

Postby mike » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:27 am

at the end of my initial course we had 2 days of testing ( 5 dogs being tested ).
day one, building search - this had about 12 rooms varying in size, smallest being a set of tiolets, the largest being a canteen / dining room, within that there were 3 hides, the first being a 2" piece of flesh in a piece of machinary, the second was a blood stained piece of cloth 3" square and the final hide was a piece of paper with 3 spots of blood on it, this was placed within a pile of other bits of paper. all blood was about 4 days old.
open area search - 200m x 400m overgrown gardens and wooded area, 3 hides again, the first was a piece of bone about 2ft long this was 6 days old and still had bits of flesh on it and all of the marrow inside. the second was a hip bone that had been hung in a bush ( 3ft off the ground ) for the past 18 months.
open area search - area around buildings inc paths etc , first was a piece of flesh stuck behind a drain pipe, second was a deposition site ( body fluids put on the floor ) and the final one was a full piglet 3 weeks dead under a wheel barrow.

day two - grave work, handlers had to identify possible grave sites and auger them to a given method once you knew what you were looking for, the pattern depends on many factors ie age/size of dead person, lay of the land etc
dogs were then worked over the grave / auger sites.

for all of the tests the dogs must give a passive indication on a find ie stand and stare at the hide. FAIL if any contact is made.
throughout the course a lot of the training is to do with field craft skills used prior to even getting the dog out of the van.
we had a lot of inputs from SOCO/CSI staff on what they need from us as handlers and also how the body breaks down over time. you would be amazed how bones change over time, both adult and child.

following on from the course we must re qualify every 6 months ( 1 week course ) and also attend a minimum of 10 training days in a 12 month period. ( 22days in total ). these figures are set as the minimum requirement by ACPO.

I could go on a long time about the age of hides we use, types of hide etc but its never ending.

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Re: Cadaver Standards

Postby Pete » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:50 am

Cheers mate very interesting. [cool]

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Re: Cadaver Standards

Postby Robert Bradley » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:03 pm

Private Eye has an article in it this week (Issue 1206) on the recent press stories, and the lack of guidelines/standards for cadaver dogs. In particular the stories coming out from Jersey.

Their last word on it sums up their view;

Until the dogs are subject to the kind of forensic scrutiny attached to scientists, tales of mulitple murders at the Jersey care home should be treated as no more than shaggy dog stories.


Whether this is possible or not, is a totally different matter...
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Re: Cadaver Standards

Postby mike » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:09 pm

the less said about Jersey / portugal the better. mike
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