Taz

An area to discuss K9 Training - Airscenting issues.

Re: Taz

Postby Fedelia » Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:36 pm

Heh... well something must be wrong in the trainingprocess if the dog starts to bark all the time. Seems that the barking has not been put under stimulus control. Remember that it only learns what you teach it to do. And one thing important is also this:

The dog always decides what is a reward, and what is punishment! humans can not decide those.


I think there is just one reason why dog barks like that. Its wants something and it knows how to get it by barking.
If you give attention to the dog when its barking, you might be rewarding it. Simple word might do, even 'NO!', depending on the dog. Dog does not do anything that is not useful to it. for example my friends dog. It barks a lot. It just starts to bark and wont stop before my friend yells at the dog SHUT UP!! and when the dog is finally quiet, she pets it (she thinks: i'll pet it as a reward now that it finally listened to me. Dog thinks: so this is how i get her attention! by barking!). And just like that she is teaching her to bark, even tho she thinks that she has just trained the dog well.. actually the dog trained her. So think about it - what are you doing to reward the dog from that behaviour? becouse you ARE doing something.

The people-scaring dog is also humans own creation and training should be planned more carefully. If you give the dog reward from barking near the goalperson, thats what it learns. But if the dog always gets a reward only when it's couple of meters away, thats what it will learn. Good tip is to teach the command 'down'. And make the rewarding very quick and accurate. So that the dog will automaticly lie down when you have its food in your hand. Immediately give the food when the dog lies down. And barking should be tought as strongly as 'down'. After that you have a good chance that the dow will lie down to bark.
After couple of repeats its good to put the down-command under stimulus control with the barking.

We use barking to most of our dogs and it has never turned out to broblematic behaviour. I have 2 barking dogs and they dont bark for food anywhere else than in the searchpractice. I simply ignored them if they did that. THey just did not get any bonus from that. THey wanted something: food, attention.. and if they got nothing , they would not bother to do that anymore, its a waste of time. They soon understood that the barking happens only in the forest and the searchingvest, maps, +other things mean practice. There is a lot of benefits in barking. 1: lost person feels more safe when the dog, the signal of saviour for the lost one, is not leaving him/her alone, but instead staying there with him/her signaling. 2: its very natural to dogs and its easy to build. I dont usually feel good about teaching large dogs to bark becouse that can be very scary. But medium and small dogs are good with bark.

I suggest that you dig into positive & negative reinforcement and punishment.
Positive reinforcement: when you add something nice to the dogs area, example: dog sits, you reward it, sitting is more propable. example:The dog barks at the goalperson 2 meters away -> give treat -> barking far away is more propable.
Negative reinforcement: when you take off something unpleasant from the dogs area as a reward. example: the dog pulls on the leach, you pull it back and let the leach go slack -> making the pulling worth it and make the pulling more propable. example: let the dog free from the leach only when theres no tention on the leach -> not pulling before setting free gets more propable
Positive punishment: you give a punishment to the dog. example: the dog does not sit, its stands. you pull the leach -> standing is less propable.
Negative punishment: you take something good away from the dog. example: the dog does not sit, it stands -> take away the treat. The dog sits: you give the treat -> standing is less propable.
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Re: Taz

Postby Perivleptos » Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm

Daryl wrote:
Joe wrote:I am teaching my dog to do a refind, this is after teaching him to bark (BIG MISTAKE). I discovered that it terrifies the life out of some kids and people to have a dog they don't know standing barking at/near them


This is one of the reasons why in our team and in some teams within LSDogs we prefer dogs to not bark at all. If the dog really has to bark, we try to get the dog to complete a refind and bark at the handler only.

There are so many other things you can teach your dog to do to Alert without needing to teach them to bark!


We usually use the bark alert, as we mainly work as a USAR team..
The refind alert multiplies the danger as the dog moves on the rubbles..so we do bark alert and use these 40 steps in training

BARK ALERT PROGRESS CHART
Dog barks at handler for reward
Dog barks at helper for reward
Short handler runaways BFR
Short handler runaways in varied positions, dog BFR
Short helper runaways, BFR
Short helper runaways in varied positions, dog BFR
Handler runaways into open barrel, BFR
Helper runaways into open barrel, BFR
Handler runaways into partially closed barrel, BFR
Helper runaways into partially closed barrel, BFR
Handler runaways into closed barrel, BFR
Helper runaways into closed barrel, BFR
Dog locates concealed helper in barrel, dog BFR
Handler approaches barrel, handler is at variable distance from helper when helper rewards
Handler approaches barrel, vary reward from handler or helper
Two barrels, one helper, helper barrel closed door, empty barrel open door
Two barrels, one helper, helper barrel door closed, empty barrel closed door
Helper pops out of barrel concealed in mulch/dirt, dog BFR
One concealed helper with multiple barrels in mulch/dirt, dog BFR
K9 BFR at barrel w/debris covering front, handler rewards, debris is removed by handler, helper continues reward
Dog is comfortable navigating on rubble and other search environments
Handler runs short distance onto easy rubble, dog BFR
Helper runs short distance onto easy rubble, dog BFR
Handler runs varied distances onto easy rubble, dog BFR
Helper runs varied distances onto easy rubble, dog BFR
Handler runaways into open barrel at edge of rubble, dog BFR
Helper runaways into open barrel at edge of rubble, dog BFR
Helper runs out of sight into open barrel at edge of rubble, dog BFR
Helper runs out of sight into partially closed barrel at edge of rubble, dog BFR
Helper runs out of sight into partially closed hiding place at edge of rubble, dog BFR
Helper pops up and closes barrel door at edge of rubble, dog BFR
Helper runs out of sight into closed barrel at edge of rubble, dog BFR
Barrel placed in more difficult rubble, helper hides/ rewards dog, dog BFR
Helper runs out of sight and hides in rubble, partially concealed, dog BFR
Helper runs out of sight and hides in concealed rubble, dog BFR
Dog locates unseen/concealed helper in rubble, helper rewards dog, dog BFR
Handler enters rubble field, dog rewarded on variable schedule from handler or helper
Distractions are proofed at barrel, off the rubble
Two barrels off rubble, one helper concealed, second pops out, dog BFR at both
Transition two barrels to the rubble, 1st helper concealed, 2nd pops out, dog BRF at both

bfr = bark for reward
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Re: Taz

Postby Kazza » Fri May 23, 2008 2:40 pm

Interesting comments all round. In the Lakes the only acceptable indication method is a bark at the body and a return to the handler and a bark. We dont had any problems with inappropriate barking at times when the dog is not working. I certainly encountered a few issues when my dog was young as I had not clearly defined when and were she would bark - but that was easy enough to do with positve re-inforcement and most of all consistency in the process; likewise I am not convinced about C searches or pop-ups.

Cheers

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