Scent discrimination

[huwrevans]

Hi,
A newbie to the forum so hope this is posted in the right area. Currently training a 9 month golden retreiver bitch with Lowland Search Dogs, South Wales, UK.

Whilst training on Saturday in open woodland 4 teenagers came past. We halted the search until they had passed. On comencing the search again the dog ignored their scent and went straight for the 'body' we were looking for.

Last night (Tuesday) we had three bodies out on a circular anticlockwise route. The third body left the search start in a clockwise direction to get in position. On comencing the search the dog picked up body three's groundscent and started to follow at a fast rate of knots. I called her back off the scent and proceeded with the search pattern agreed. She found the first two OK. She found the third but didn't indicate at all and seemed to purposefully ignore him.

The question is - did my calling her off the scent signal her that I wasn't interested in that scent so she ignored it when she came accross it again - just as she had done with the childrens scent on Saturday?

Any thoughts?

[rich&sassy]

Hi

did my calling her off the scent signal her that I wasn't interested in that scent so she ignored

I would say your assumption is correct Huwr.

I have a relatively inexperienced border collie who if I call her off a scent or if she has found and being reset for a second misper will happily then ignore that scent.

Must admit though I try never to call her off if I can see she is working a scent even if I know its not the right one especially at the early stages of training

Good luck

Rich

[roland and meg]

I would agree and have lost count of the number of times I have called the dog off when I shouldn't.
We have an arrangement now.
I carry the tennis ball in my mouth when she is searching.
She gets it when she finds

[StuartL]

I would agree and have lost count of the number of times I have called the dog off when I shouldn't.
We have an arrangement now.
I carry the tennis ball in my mouth when she is searching.
She gets it when she finds

Genius.

[huwrevans]

Thanks Guys,

I thought it was my fault , should listen to the dog ,

We're going out again tonight to try the same search patterns - but letting the ground scent fade before I take her out and more importantly - not calling her off when she's following a scent.

Huw

[dmg]

We were just talking about this last night at training, where the dog had just hit on the body (hidden person said they saw the dog approaching) butjust at that stage before the dog actually went into indicate at the body, the handler was calling the dog back to search a different area. The dog therefore thought it was supposed to ignore the body it had just got wind of but as one of our experienced group was saying, it's the one time the dog should override the handler's recall and insist that it's made the find. I can't remember the details of the exercise that was discussed to reinforce this though, I'll ask again.

One suggestion (and I'm only new to this as well so anyones else, feel free to say yes or no), is that to start your search from somewhere other than where your bodies left from, e.g. go further down the track, let the bodies go in and then work your way back. Then your dog can't groundscent the person it probably knows.

And something else we're always told and all of us say we don't do it enough, always trust your dog....

[StuartL]

How would it work to never actually call your dog off but to let them search the area they're currently working? If you want them to go somewhere else lead by example and if they're ready to follow they will do so, then you can point them in the new direction.

Thoughts?

[lou]

I would say your absolutly right and that she assumed she was to ignore it as you had called her off it.

I am afraid i totally disagree with the following comment

it's the one time the dog should override the handler's recall and insist that it's made the find.

This has actually happened to me. The scent my dog had picked up on was a person the other side of a railway line. The dog set off working scent. A train was coming. The dog was called and returned instantly. Had the working over ridden that command the dog would no question be dead.

Nothing should over ride a recall command.

I think the leasson is that if you can see the dog is working and its safe to do so then let it work and keep your mouth shut as Roland says! But if you cant see the dangers ahead or the dog is getting too far away then you need to call them back and they need to respond to this even if on scent and then its up to your training to ensure you cover this scenario and get the dog used to then finding when you allow them to go back to that area or you are at that particular area working.

What your dog did is perfectly normal for a dog in training and you have learnt from it but please train through this rather than training or allowing a dog to ignore the recall command when on scent.

Lou x

[huwrevans]

Training last night went well (appart from her being slightly distracted due to being on heat).

We let the ground scent decay before taking the dog out, and I let her work the scents she picked up - which were mostly other dogs, until we got near the first body and she remembered what she was out there to do.

Found all three bodies without any issues, even though a group of dog walkers came along one of the search tracks.

So lessons learnt by the handler.

Agree totaly with the above, the handler has to work the dog in all aspects of the search.

When the dog walking group came through we stopped the search (and put her on a lead) then started again without issue.

It may be worth including in a futre training session (as the dog gets better) to call her off a scent, stop and then send her back in to train her to indicate on all finds.

Any thoughts?

Thanks again Huw

[lou]

Sounds great.

Well done.

Assessments in December?!